Adrian Mateos
Interview date: October 27, 2018
Could you just run through your background in poker.
I was 16 years old and discovered poker on TV. I just loved it. I don’t remember if it was the EPT or something like that. I loved it so I opened my laptop and looked for some information about poker. I was watching all the videos I found on YouTube and I really liked it. So I started to play in really, really low with some friends. Five euro sit and goes or whatever. Then I started to study a lot. I remember I was in the high school, and I was a really good student until I discovered poker. In Spain, the marks are one to ten. Ten is the maximum. I was getting nines, tens, no problem. I discovered poker and I spent too much time studying that. I want to be really good at poker, and my marks went down to seven, six, five. My parents weren’t happy, so we had a deal that if I improve this, and I’m doing well in school, then I can play poker. So I tried to improve and go to university when I was 18 years old, but mostly I spent my study time studying poker.
Then I was 18 years old, I think I have a pretty high level for my age at poker, but I didn’t have any bankroll. I remember I had maybe €1,000/€2,000 in my bankroll. I won a small tournament in my town when I was underage. And then it was booming, or happening in a few months, I started playing cash games, or small tournaments at the casino and then cash games. I made a 10K bankroll pretty quick, like two months. Then bink a tournament for 30K and then three months later I bink another tournament for 100K.
So that’s the start of everything. And then I decided to quit university. I was studying economics. I moved to London. In Spain we can’t play online on .com so I really want to know if I can play high stakes, and so I talked to my parents and I said, “OK, I will try for one year.” And the worse case scenario, I lose the money I won in six months. But I didn’t have it before. And in the best case scenario I live the dream. Because if I don’t I will regret what happened all my life. So I go to London with some other poker players. The most known is Sergio Aido. When I was 18 years old. To live in a house with others. We are four, total, poker players. We were playing online. I was pretty lucky in my first series online, a SCOOP. So I make some bankroll and was playing live, and bink, my first bracelet in Paris. And then continued playing, improving my game, playing higher and higher stakes. And nowadays I play the highest stakes. No more higher than I play. So I’m pretty happy.
The study is important, but how much time do you put in?
Sick. It’s not the same study I have today because now I know how to study really well. I’m a high stakes player. But back in the day, when I was 16, it’s like I read every post in every poker forum, I watched every video. Just thinking about poker quite a lot. I was kind of obsessed. I was a winning player when I was 16 years old and I said, “Wow, if I can win like this when I’m 16 years old, and I’ve just started, if I study a lot I could win a lot.” I was really really good at cards, because I used to play with my parents, my family, Spanish games. I was pretty good. And I’m really good at maths too so poker had everything I want. I just want to reach the freedom to have enough money that my parents don’t have to feed me or give me money. When I was 16, poker was the main goal. And I’m here now.
To be really good at something you have to be obsessive. Really focused on something. Some people think it’s bad to be obsessing with something, but I think it’s the only way to get success really high. Too many hours. You have to work more than every other player. The only way to do it is you have to love it. There are some players who are really good but they don’t love the game. But with the passing of years, they quit poker. Only the guys who really love to play, and love to study, are the guys who succeed the most. I was really lucky that I love it and work hard.
Did studying with a group help?
Yes, yes of course. We all studied together, we analysed hands together. I have a hand that I’m not sure if I played well, I ask Sergio, I ask Javier, “I say, ‘Javier did I play this well? How do you think I should play this hand?” So we talk all the time. The thing is, you have to think about poker a lot of hours, like in everything. If you want to play good football, you have to train many hours. If you want to play everything, to get really good. And for sure moving to a house where every people have the same goals, want to be really good professional poker player.
Did your house swap pieces?
I’m not a big swapper. I’m more of a gambler because I have a lot of confidence in myself and probably in the highest stakes I’m one of the guys who is swapping the least. But yes sometimes I swap some selection. But I love to have a big piece, or a decent piece of myself, and if you swap with other people, a lot of pieces are invested in the same tournament. I prefer swapping a little bit less and having a bigger piece of myself.
But you’re not reckless. You’re not going broke.
No, of course. If I go broke, it’ll be because I make big mistakes not in poker, probably in my financial decisions outside poker. I think it’s close to impossible to go broke in poker. Probably if I go broke it’s because I made bad investment out of poker. By myself, I think I’m a winning player in every tournament I play, so it’s close to impossible to go broke. If you don’t put 20 percent of your bankroll in one tournament, if you put 1 percent, 2 percent and you’re doing great, selling mark up and stuff. So it’s close to impossible to go broke.
[Name redacted] had four bullets in this tournament [WSOP-E €100K]. That sounds insane to someone outside of poker, but why isn’t it insane?That’s not insane because if he had the bankroll to play one bullet, he had the bankroll probably to play 100 bullets. The thing is you have to plan, and you know before that that could happen. You could run really bad and be in the spot that the tournament is still really good so you want to rebuy. So before you have to plan how much money you can invest in the worst-case scenario. But that’s the same with the winnings. When someone wins $50 million. I played the $1 million One Drop in the World Series and people were like, “Wow, you’re crazy”. But I didn’t lose $1 million of myself. I lost $1 million out of [other] people. Even if I win this tournament, $2.6 million on top, it’s not all of my action. When you lose you don’t lose that much and when you win you don’t win that much. And then people see the Hendon Mob. Me, I have $15–16 million Hendon Mob. People say: “Wow you win $16 million” but you are not counting the buy-ins. A really good player can spend $10 million and win $12 million. Two million profit is huge. But then people think that you’ve won 12. But 12 is not real. You’ve got 10 percent, 20 percent, return is really high in high rollers. Maybe here I finished fifth. It’s only five buy-ins. It’s not big. I could bust five tournaments in a row and nobody knows and then I won $500k and they go, “Wow, congratulations.” It’s not congratulations, I was in a big downswing!
Do you have to explain this a lot?
I try to explain to the people closest to me, but I can’t explain to everyone, because it’s impossible and people normally don’t understand and don’t want to believe you or whatever. I have explained to my parents and my brother and my closest friend. It’s not real. If I win today €2.6 million it’s not real, I’m not winning that much. So they understand. And when I lose…I remember when I come back from losing the $1 million it was “Are you OK? Are you OK?” And, yeah, I’m OK. Of course I want to win but my life doesn’t change because I’m not crazy enough to put all the million, or a huge percentage of my bankroll.
There’s a phrase “life-changing money”. Does it exist anymore?
It does, but some people, playing 100Ks, winning 100K doesn’t change your life. But if you keep Bonomo’s streak, or something like that, that’s a lot of money because the first 100K you don’t have too much percentage, but the second one you have a bigger bankroll so you have bigger percentage and the third one, you have more bankroll so more percentage. So when you bink so many in a row, that’s the real money. If one guy wins a 100K and he was losing for eight months in a streak, he probably doesn’t have too much cash. So the thing is to win boom, boom, boom. For poker players, to make it in a good way, you have to play bigger percentage, gamble more money per tournament to give you bigger bankroll. So the most important things are the tournaments after you bink.
How do start selling action? Do you need to gain trust?
It was €200. One of my first tournaments, when I was 18 years old and I won it. €200 is easy: my friend put €20, my other friend put €20. The problem is when the stakes are higher. You have to find someone. Now it’s so easy to sell, even a million for a tournament. The thing is you have to get to a point…some players can sell for $10K tournaments, some players can sell for $100K tournaments. And then you have to find investors. For me, a lot of people have confidence in my game, so now I know the guys who buy my action normally. If I don’t sell to the same guys, I just have to put in Twitter or social media and other people want to buy my action. For me it’s easier. But when you start, I remember the first $100K I played it was hard. I played because one big investor had confidence in my game, but only one big. Other people were “What? You’re crazy! You’re 19.” I was 19/20 years old. I play with the best in the world, blah, blah, blah. Now everyone wants to buy my action, that’s how it works. Everybody wants…they’ll complain: “You’re crazy, how you play.” Then everyone like “Congratulations!” Everyone wants to buy a piece. People in everything are really results oriented. So it’s impossible. First 100K I bust, so nobody wants to buy. If I win the first one, nobody complain. That’s the problem.
Who are your investors? Are they other poker players or businessmen?
Probably both. Outside poker, normally they like poker and how we work. I can message some players. But especially professional poker players, who buy bigger stakes, are usually a group of players, very professional, who basically know players. For example, if I know my friend in basically a winning player in a 100K, I will say I buy 10 percent, 10K. If he sells 10 percent to another player.
You’re also a buyer?
In a lower stakes I have more. In the 100K I have nothing, or a small percentage. I’m gambling myself, so it’s enough. For main events I buy action from some players, if they play good, they can win in this event, it’s a good investment. My motivation is I think it’s a good decision financially, and I think I will win money in the long run. And if I help some friends, it’s even better. But the first thing is that I have to think the investment is +EV.
Do you have formal contracts with your horses?
No. Back in the day, I backed some guys I didn’t know so much, but now I only back friends, guys I really have confidence and they are friends and in my opinion…it’s a lot of money, so you have to have confidence in the guy and be friends with the guy. It’s the best way to do it.
There are so many more 100Ks now. What does that mean for you?
When I started playing 100Ks, 50Ks, I say, “I can do it because it’s only two or three 100Ks and two or three 50Ks.” So I can gamble a little bit more. But now you can gamble big because it’s a 100K every month probably. So if you make a bad run, you get wrecked. So you have to gamble less.
How did we get here?
I don’t know, because there are many…the passage of years, some poker players make a lot of money so they want to compete higher and higher stakes, and then there are some recreational [players] who love to play these tournaments. You have a product and everyone loves it, so why not. As a professional, I love to play. For me, every day a 100K would be amazing. It’s not possible, but it would be amazing for sure. But the thing there, you need recreationals to make the pros win money in the tournament, the pros to play the tournament. You can’t play every day because there’s not recreationals to lose 100K every day. That’s not how it works. If you have people interested, some recreationals are really are really, really rich, really successful people who have big business or big whatever. They want to compete with the best. The good of poker is probably the only sport that you can play with the best, only if you put in the money. If you love football, you can’t play with Messi. If you love tennis, you can’t play with Rafael Nadal. You have to be really good. Poker, you can be really bad and play with the best players no problem.
From a pro’s point of view, you need to recs to drive the action?
Yes of course. Because in every tournament someone wins and someone loses. Even if all pros, there are better pros than others. But normally the worst players want to gamble against the best. And there’s no money in the long run, only the rake, and the casino wins the money, and high rollers wouldn’t happen. You need the businessmen, who don’t care about losing money and just enjoy the experience. It’s a pretty nice experience for them also. If I am really, really rich and I don’t care, and I love poker, I don’t see a problem to play with the best and enjoy the money.
The super high rollers have a much more relaxed atmosphere
You have to create atmosphere. People who play 100Ks understand they are professional players. They understand the game, understand how it works, understand where the money has come from. The recreationals who can play the really high rollers are really rich people, really successful in business, and normally really intelligent too. So it’s a nice atmosphere. Normally people are really sympathetic, [they’re in a] good mood and everyone can enjoy. Because in the smallest tournament there are people gambling way too much money. They can’t afford to lose. In the 100K normally people who play can afford to lose, so they don’t care [if they] lose and to bust. Professional players that reach this level understand that you can bust and [there’s nothing you did wrong]. You can’t do anything. People who play this level have a lot of money behind, so they don’t care too… The problem is in the main events, and some tournaments like this, and people gamble really big. The main events are really life-changing money for a lot of people, so there is difference. People are more nervous, they don’t want to talk that much. Here people are relaxing. Probably for any player in this field that won a tournament his life didn’t change. So that’s important.
Do you actually consciously discuss how to win from the businessmen?No, no, normally the pros play that high are normally pretty good people too, and intelligent. You can play poker and be happy, or you can play whatever, write in the newspaper, make an article, and be happy with your job and enjoy the moment, or you can be hating everyone and be a bad person. Normally people who play at high stakes, most of the guys are really good people. I will go party with most of the guys, go to dinner, no problem. And it’s sick. People outside poker: “Wow, this guy bust you and you lose $1 million because of this guy.” Yes but you can’t do anything. At the end of the day it’s just another tournament. I bust Sergio too many times. He bust me too many times. We can go dinner, party together, no problem like that because we understand how it works. You have to enjoy the moment. I think that in every [inaudile], if you make in a positive way, you can enjoy it. It’s sick, especially in the big high rollers, because we know each other. Obviously you can’t be close friends with everyone but…
Do you think your stories are similar to the others’?
Yes, most of the guys started low and kept grinding, grinding and with the passage of years, they create these stakes. Some players start with cash games. Some players bink a big tournament. The story how the recs get here may be different but at the end all the guys normally won a lot of money playing poker and we are here, just to play poker, and win more money for sure.
Will you carry on for years and years?
That’s a question I don’t know. Now, I really love poker, and I can’t quit. But life is so long, so I don’t know how I will feel in five years or ten years. I think this year and next year I will play a lot for sure, and let’s see the next year. I don’t know. Maybe I lose or I won too much money, that changed my life. A lot of things can happen in life that changes your mind. The only thing I don’t like from playing poker is I can’t live in Spain. That’s the biggest problem. I love poker. I would love to live in Madrid, with my family, my friends. That’s the only thing that I don’t like about playing and travelling a lot, but I’m pretty lucky so I’m happy.
Why do some really successful players move out of the super high roller scene?
They won too much money. When you win too much money, if you have $1m bankroll, do you want to play $50K? Do you want to play Main Events because it’s big money? I don’t know the numbers, but if you have 5 million, 10 million, playing that 5K tournament doesn’t motivate you as much as when you need the money. So when you win too much, when you reach the point that most of the guys who have been playing for eight years, seven years, travelling really really hard, like me, and talking a lot, playing online a lot, studying a lot, then you reach the point where you think, “I have enough money. I don’t really need to travel that much. I don’t need to travel the 5K [circuit] now.” It’s normal. Normally it’s because they won a lot of money playing poker, so they leave quick.
Do you find yourself searching for some kind of meaning to what you do?No. I just feel good. I’m just really lucky that the game I love and I’m really good at, gives me a lot of money. That’s luck because there are a lot of things I could be good at and not have a lot of money. The thing that I’m really good at brings me a lot of money. It’s just luck.
Do you have results and expenses spreadsheets, etc?
That depends on the person. Some people are really cautious, some people don’t care. I’m not really cautious. I need a ticket, I buy a ticket. Seriously I don’t know how much I spend in flights or hotels this year. Even I don’t know how much I won or lose, because I have the confidence that I am a winning player in every tournament I play. So I don’t need to make a calculation. At the beginning you have to do it because you need to see which tournament you win money, or if you are playing so high or whatever. But I have the confidence that I can win money in any stakes, in tournaments. It doesn’t care. At the end of the year if I win 50K or 100K or 300K. As soon as it not big, big gap. Normally I know more or less, but it’s impossible.
Of course, it’s a good deal, but if I play a 100K and I think I have 10% ROI, return on investment I win 10K, I have to spend 2 or 3k in room and flights, I’m still winning money. I didn’t care to spend two or three, of course I want to find the best deal and if I can pay two, I won’t pay three. Of course. But I don’t keep track of everything. It doesn’t make any sense.
In poker, you will not know how much money you win at the end of the year. Everything is variance, which you don’t know and you can’t calculate. Sponsorship gave me some safe money, like a normal job, so it’s good. But I will play anyway, if I have or not sponsorship.
I don’t need the money to play the tournaments. Of course, it’s something I really appreciate. And it’s something especially for my parents and my family, now you have some income that is not all variance.
Other player interviews: Charlie Carrel, Daniel Negreanu, Dominik Nitsche, Erik Seidel, Fedor Holz, Jason Koon, Justin Bonomo, Stephen Chidwick and Winfred Yu.
